S2 E5 - Challenging patriarchy & bigotry, within and outside one's community

Conversation with Nazni Rizvi, Senior Reporter at Khabar Lahariya - India’s only independent feminist grassroots news network

  
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In this episode, Main Bhi Muslim’s producer and host, Mariyam Haider, spoke to Nazni Rizvi, Senior Reporter at Khabar Lahariya, India’s only, all-women, feminist, hyper-local, video first news channel, reporting from within the country’s hinterland.

In this conversation, Nazni shares her story of belonging to the Muslim community in rural India where she fought social and religious prescriptions to leave an incompatible marriage, join Khabar Lahariya, train as a journalist, and over the years, cover some of the most pertinent issues including women’s rights and equality, social justice, and organised crime, in Bundelkhand region.

Nazni’s reportage and her personal story deeply showcase the prejudices that women often face for making alternative life choices, not just from outside their social communities, but also from within, and how she has tackled them over the years. Her story also speaks for countless other Indian Muslim women who often live with community-prescribed gender and patriarchal expectations, failing to meet which can often lead them to become pariahs.

This interview was conducted in Hindi and has been edited for clarity, but you can find the English transcript below.


Transcript

Mariyam Haider, Host - Thank you Nazni for joining us today at Main Bhi Muslim’s podcast episode. I’ve been really excited to reach out to you and share your story through Main Bhi Muslim ever since I learnt about you. I want to deeply thank you for the kind of reporting that you've been doing through the years, especially on agendas that people do not wish to hear about and about topics that they are not open to understanding. It really motivates me, the kind of work you do, it's all a lesson for us. It teaches us about the kind of reporting that is essential and important today, and how we can express ourselves through our writing. 

Nazni Rizvi - “Mariyam, thanks to you as well because being a journalist our job is to bring out stories of other people, but sometimes even we wish to be heard, and that people get to know our story too. I’ve gotten my chance to be heard through this podcast at MBM, and I’m going to use this opportunity to open up and talk about the things that I go through, that often happen with me so that people realise that as journalists, we also go through a lot and have a story to tell.”

Mariyam - First of all Nazni, let's start with your introduction. How did you start working with Khabar Lahariya, and what prior incidents of your life led you to Khabar Lahariya, which eventually turned tables for you & gave your life a new beginning?

Nazni RizviMy name is Nazni. I am currently working as a senior reporter. My journey with Khabar Lahariya began in 2007. At that time, I was in a bad financial state. I had 5 little children. The notion of  belonging to a muslim family, and having to remain under the veil, kept me restricted. And to top it, I was also a woman. A muslim woman. There were a lot of difficulties. My condition was really bad and working outside was tough. My family was going through a tough phase. I was in desperate need of work. Because I have had formal education only till Grade VIII, I had never pictured myself as a journalist. I was ready for all odd jobs, and cleaning chores, daily wage-labour, or a petty job at any shop; anything but never a journalist.

So, therewas this teacher who’d come to teach my landlord’s kids Arabic. She informed me about an office at (Babu Lal Chauraha in Banda district ) that provided work to women, and was hopeful I too could get some work there. The lack of a basic educational background and no previous experience made me skeptical, but I gathered courage and went there from where I was directed to the Vanagna office. Because Khabar Lahariya had just recently launched, it wasn’t very well known. When I reached the Vanagna office, Anita didi there informed me that because I was neither a graduate nor did I have any kind of prior work experience, there wasn’t any work for me. She suggested I go to the nearby Khabar Lahariya office which had just begun functioning. 

She told me that Khabar Lahariya was training girls and women to be journalists. Even though I doubted I could do journalism, I mustered strength and went forward. Upon reaching the location after asking various people on the way, I saw two women - Kavita didi and Meera didi - my now Editor, walking in the scorching heat under an umbrella. 

I asked them if there was an office named Khabar Lahariya around there. One of them answered by asking me what work I had at the office, with a smile. I told them that I was looking for work. Hesitantly, they guided me upstairs. I thought they were leading me towards the office, turned out they were the office heads and unlocked the office welcoming me inside. They sat me down, asked about me, and told me about Khabar Lahariya. Then she asked me to write an application, and informed me that they weren’t recruiting yet, but would get back to me once they started hiring. 

However, I told them that I was in desperate need of work because I had little kids to look after and was jobless. Two of my little girls had gone with me, one was still in my lap. When they understood that I really really needed a job, after learning about my financial condition, about my maiden family and my in-laws being unsupportive, Kavita didi asked if I could sell newspapers. She offered me to sell newspapers, keep its commission and deposit the sale proceeds at the office. She also assured me that they’d consider me for future recruitments. 

I did not think less of myself as a newspaper seller, it did not bother me. I just picked up the newspapers and that day onwards, I started selling newspapers. 2-3 months from then, recruitment started, and I applied. We had to undergo a 15 days’ training programme. Out of the 35-36 females there, only 3 finally got selected, and I was one of them. From there on in 2007, I have been associated with Khabar Lahariya.

Mariyam - Nazni, you’ve said a lot in your introduction itself. You’ve not only told us about your motive behind joining Khabar Lahariya, but also about your circumstances that guided you towards joining Khabar Lahariya.

When we read your stories, we see that they cover many aspects other than just on-ground reporting. They also consider the domestic side of the women’s story, that within their homes what are the women expected to do and how they fulfill their duty in society. But your story has been different. Like you said, you were in Moradabad after marriage and you were looking after your house and family, while you received no support from anybody. So when you are reporting now and you ask women about their perspective on life within their houses, do you see any changes where women see a possibility in having a life even outside their homes; do they get motivated watching you/ listening to your story?

Nazni Rizvi - “Yes, there has been change, but a lot is yet to change. Some women go out to work, their husbands and in-laws support them, but there are still a lot of women who may have the freedom to go out to work but still have to come back to look after their households and families. Men are dominantly present in the journalists’ circle. So when I meet people sometimes, they tell me that some fellow journalist brother told them about me and that I also travel to far off places, and some women take inspiration from these talks. It feels nice. Sometimes women do not want to move far from their places for training, but when they are told about me, these women agree to go for training programmes.”

Mariyam - So how do you explain to people the concept of feminism? How do you tell women about their rights and their status of equality in society?

Nazni Rizvi - “People talk about Islam and sharia each time we mention equality of women and men, but sharia also holds them equal. People don’t believe in it. The law, the Constitution, both hold men and women as equal. It is on paper, and people merely talk about it; there’s hardly any acceptance of equality. Each time I talk about feminism, people think that I am against men, I am talking ill about the masculine gender, and that I only favor females / women. Then I have to explain to them in detail that I have nothing against them, and that feminism only demands overall equality of men and women in all aspects, that women too should be allowed to wear and eat and do as it pleases them. Sometimes they understand, other times they argue.”

Mariyam - From the videos that I have seen of you, you run two amazing programs with  Khabar Lahariya, and in one of them I heard your slogan ‘bolenge, bulwayenge, hans kar sab keh jayenge’. I love this slogan because it leaves no scope for argument. In that program, you question people, they answer, based on which you question again. There’s a video in which you are talking about patriarchy and there's a young boy who said that ours has always been a patriarchal country considering all children are named after their fathers. While talking about paternal and maternal names, you mentioned that Kareena Kapoor has changed her name and talked about other renowned people that most of us know. 

Mariyam - During that talk, at some point the same boy said that now things are changing as they must, and there’s no issue with women naming their children after themselves, they should if it pleases them. In that conversation of about 3-4 minutes, I felt as though the light talk changed at least one person’s perspective. So, do you think that we can change people’s mindset on such topics by bringing serious questions through these light talks?

Nazni Rizvi - “The motive of the show was to allow people to talk out their hearts through funny talks. We wanted them to talk about what's in their hearts themselves. Usually our reports are on serious topics, which is why we kept this talk show funny.”

Mariyam -  I’ll now move towards the more serious topics. Some of your reports are based on such topics that people usually do not associate with women journalists. Women are usually thought to report on casual topics such as food and fashion. So can you tell us about some such topics which you reported on and what kind of an experience it was for you?

Nazni Rizvi - “One of my reports is on Sadhna Patel who is a ‘daaku’ (dacoit)’. Chitrakoot region is surrounded by a lot of dacoits and these areas are terrorised by their deeds. Such incidents are often mentioned in many well known newspapers and news channels. I have reported on them and their stories, about how dacoits often torment villagers and the police are troubled a lot by them too. 

So when I heard about this female dacoit in Chitrakoot, I had a weird feeling. I felt bad. I kept thinking about what could’ve possibly turned the woman into a dacoit. I accepted that she was a dacoit, doing wrong, but I wanted to know the story of her life, about what made her do so. I wanted to know how she became a dacoit. So when I learnt about the village that she belonged to, first I went alone. After searching here and there, I reached her house and talked to people around her place. Her house was far from the village, in the jungle under a mountain. She lived only with her mother and her uncle. After researching well, I put her story as part of our monthly plan. 

The story interested Kavita didi also, and she too decided to come along. We fixed a date, booked an auto (because it was a jungle area). When we got off the auto, the auto driver was so scared. He kept the auto’s engine on all throughout the 2-3 hours that we were inside her house, so we could escape quickly once our work was done. When we entered her house, we met her ‘Mausi’ (mother’s sister) and ‘Mama’ (mother’s brother) who narrated her story to us. We then requested to meet her mother, who herself looked very young, we even thought it could be Sadhna herself, pretending to be her mother in a ‘saree’. We were even wondering what if this is Sadhna, and she pulls out a gun and lodges a few bullets in us? (laughs)

Initially her mother expressed anger, she wouldn’t tell us anything, or show us Sadhna’s photo. But we eventually explained to her that we were there as women, other than just being journalists and we wanted to write a report on Sadhna’s story from a woman's perspective, to understand why she joined the dacoits in the first place. Her mother then narrated to us that Sadhna had fallen in love with somebody who she later married, but was sold by her husband to dacoits for INR 50000. Somehow she came back and would loiter in the jungle. People and relatives saw her but outlawed her. 

Due to the lack of support from her family, she ended up being among dacoits again. She came back and this time her mother sent her to live with their relatives. There as well, she was sold to a group of dacoits. She was repeatedly being sold to dacoits, and she couldn’t find a way out. By now, the police too had started troubling her. She then resorted to living in the mountains with the dacoits. We don’t know who did what to her, but there were some who she had beaten up during nights near the village. She wouldn’t beat up everyone. It’s possible she did it because they had harmed her or because they didn’t support her when she rescued herself from the dacoits. There must've been a story behind who she chose to beat up, her stories resonated with that of Phoolan Devi. 

We got her real photo, all other media reports gave file photos of her. When we wrote her story and published it, it created a stir amongst the media. They came to us asking for her photo and story. Nobody had talked to anybody from her family, they wrote only what the police told them. Even journalists from Madhya Pradesh called us for her details, but we had a fixed date for publishing our article and we decided to share the details with them after our report had been published.”

Mariyam - So when people called you, they were only asking for Sadhna’s details. It probably tells that nobody really had the courage to go to Sadhna’s place.

Nazni Rizvi -“Nobody went. We even gave them location details, but they all thought that her family wouldn't talk to them, or tell them anything about her. They didn’t try. Getting to know about Sadhna made me feel like people just put women down, instead of trying to know what she was put through and why she turned out to be the way she did.Nobody was interested in really knowing Sadhna’s story and why she became a dacoit. 

Mariyam - Within the Muslim community, how do poeple react when they hear about you going to various places and covering the less-talked-about topics in your reports? How do they see it? What have you heard, or what do you think they feel about your decisions?

Nazni Rizvi - “I belong to a Muslim family. I am a “bad” woman among my relatives and those around me because I roam around without a ‘purdah’/veil, I wear a ‘bindi’, I go places, and do not have a man by my side. There is a notion among Muslims that women must move around with a man, even if it is a small boy. I talk to anybody and I don’t hesitate in asking any questions, hence a bad woman. Once I was at my Khala’s (mother’s sister) place, and we were talking about something and I mentioned that there had been a rape somewhere. My Khala got upset that I used a word as rape in the presence of so many men. During my early days, I wouldn’t go out to my relatives, nor would they talk to me. But things are changing slowly. People do meet me now. However, they still expect me to wear a ‘chador’ (large scarf) if not a ‘naqaab’ (veil) during family events.”

Mariyam - Like you said, people in your family, initially did not understand your work and wouldn’t talk to you. But now that you’ve been reporting as a journalist for so many years and have submitted multiple amazing reports, in a manner that a lot of us have so much to learn from you, do you think you’ve now been able to change people’s perspective about you in the Muslim community? On the outside, it often seems very easy, what you do. People think that all you have to do is listen and see and report, but that’s not quite true. How do you gather the courage to report such issues with utmost honesty alongside maintaining a humanitarian approach? 

Nazni Rizvi - “Muslims who are not my relatives have been very supportive of me and are happy to see me grow as a journalist. Sitting beside them, I’ve often heard them proudly introduce me as Nazni Ji, saying I’m a journalist, who goes to various places for reporting and has done various amazing coverage. But sometimes I also hear people say that I should either wear a bindi or change my name. But this is completely my choice, I like to wear bindi and so I do. Earlier, when I used to post on Facebook, I’d receive messages and comments from people asking me why I wear a ‘saree’ or ‘bindi’. But isn’t saree too just another piece of clothing? Even if you believe that Allah or Sharia doesn’t allow some things, back in those days, almost nothing existed, not even clothes. Should we all refuse to wear clothes then? These comments call for a lot of debates.”

Mariyam - I can absolutely understand your arguments, because the reason behind me starting Main Bhi Muslim was to primarily present the meaning of Indian Muslimness through mine and other people’s stories. I want to tell people that we, the Muslims of India, live and spend our lives in many different ways. Like you mentioned, you are expected to either wear a bindi or change your name, or how we aren’t supposed to wear a ‘saree’, people even outside the muslim community have a very generalised perception of us as Muslim women. They have a predetermined picture of how we are, and how we are not. So what you said actually represents the foundation of Main Bhi Muslim.

Mariyam - As you said in our previous conversation, there are places where you’d go wearing a ‘bindi’ and may not immediately give your name because that could be in a Hindu colony which may create some problems for you initially, but eventually they learn your name and accept it easily. Nazni Ji, please tell us a little about how you feel about your identity when you go to such places. Have you ever felt like you being a Muslim could be problematic?

Nazni Rizvi - “I usually visit rural areas, backward areas, people are still of a conservative mindset. When I go to a Muslim or Dalit dominated area, introducing myslef to them is easy. But when I go to cover big news or to places where most people belong to the upper castes, like Thakurs, Pandits, and Patels, they immediately ask what caste I belong to. In Bundeli, they will say, “Kaun behni hoo?” Meaning which caste do you belong to? 

Seeing me wear a ‘bindi’ and ‘bichiyas’ (ornamental jewellery traditionally worn by married women) sometimes they suggest I should also wear ‘chudis’ and apply ‘sindoor’, assuming I’m a Hindu. But even if I’m wearing a ‘bindi’ and ‘bichiyas’, I still do not introduce myself and disclose my caste immediately. I first talk about random things, ask for some water even if I’m not thirsty and create an atmosphere. But because they are so habitual to knowing castes, they do not talk openly unless they know about one’s caste. I then tell them that I’m a Muslim and explain to them that despite our differences, our blood is the same right. There are only two differences, men and women; you’re a woman and I’m a woman, that’s the community we both belong to. They then talk to me comfortably. Sometimes wearing bindi makes it easier for me, but because I like wearing it, I always do so.”

Mariyam - I must say that your way of winning people’s hearts and creating the atmosphere to talk is so interesting, I really think I should learn it from you. Sometime back you’d told me about a school whose story you’d covered, for which you also received a prize. Could you tell me more about that story?

Nazni Rizvi - “I received a call from a group of trustees / local guardians of the Kendriya Vidyalaya (public school) saying that the dilapidated school building was risky for the students, especially after a cylinder burst in it. It could fall anytime. They had invited many journalists saying they were going to submit a memorandum to the DM. When I went to the school to report the issue, the teachers weren’t ready to talk to me in the absence of the Principal. I asked for the Principal’s number and upon receiving that I spoke to the principal who accepted that even though the building is severely damaged, they are unable to locate another building space for the school and that the guardians are deliberately troubling them. The guardians wanted them to at least try but looked like the Principal wasn’t willing to shift the school building. We then went to submit the memorandum to the DM and we talked to him. The DM then came with us to survey the school building. 

A trustee then informed me about another school that had shifted to a new building, and was vacant. We, along with the DM, visited the vacant building and approved it for use for the school. I published news for the same, and interviewed the DM, principal, students, and the trustees/guardians. The building was then cleaned for use and was ready for a new beginning. The trustees organised a program where they honored me with an idol of Lord Ganesha. There was disappointment among other journalists as they weren’t honored. However, the trustees awarded me for working on their story and getting it published. 

I hadn’t noticed the idol too much and hung it as a showpiece in my house. When people from the Muslim community would come to my place and see the idol, they’d ask me if I had re-married a Hindu or changed my religion and often said that it’s a sin to keep a Hindu God’s idol in one’s home. If a Hindu visited my place, he/she would say that the idol was of no use to me while some would be happy seeing that I also have a Hindu God’s idol hung up. Seeing an idol which is usually seen within Hindu homes, makes some people including Hindus and Muslims link me with a Hindu person, that I might be having a relationship with someone in the Chitrakoot region. For me the Ganesh ji idol is a gift, and I respect the gift whatever it is.” 

Mariyam - What you just said is a matter of huge concern for me because this sense of discrimination is what drives me to raise questions as to why we cannot adopt other cultures that are practiced in our country. Muslims have been in India for centuries now and our cultures have a lot of similarities. Yes, we do have our own set of practices as Muslims, but that should not barr us from adopting practices from other cultures. Since you bring here an amazing amalgamation of Hinduism, Muslimness and womanhood, I’d like to ask you if you think that people’s mindset pertaining to these Hindu-Muslim prejudices can be changed through any means?

Nazni Rizvi - “I live in a Hindu dominated region. Here as well, there’s a common practice of Hindus not touching Muslims and if they do, they’d have to bathe again. Not only Hindus but Muslims do such things. Recently, I was invited to my relative’s daughter’s wedding. It was a Muslim dominated place. I told my aunt that I don’t wear a veil, how can I come? She asked me to wear a ‘chaadar’, meaning I should have myself covered with something. We cannot do  everything completely as per our wishes. So when I went there, I saw that they wouldn’t buy milk from a Hindu’s store, they’d drink black tea instead. They’ll search the entire market in they are hungry, but wouldn’t eat if they can’t find a Muslim-owned eatery or shop. 

There are a lot of biases, Hindu-Muslim biases and discussions along those lines that keep on occurring. I was with a cousin once who was travelling from Azamgarh to Raebareli. She (being an ultra-narrow minded person) wouldn’t even drink tea, but only pre-packed cold drinks throughout the journey. Upon asking why, she said it was because it would be difficult to determine whether the tea was made by a Hindu or a Muslim. It amazed me how she believed that Sharia proclaimed pre-packed food as clean, which could have also been packed by a Hindu or a Muslim. 

It confounds me that people can believe in such actions as (wrongly) being part of Sharia, because all of these Hindu-Muslim shops didn’t exist back in the times when Sharia was being written. What is all the cultural pretense for? Don’t eat anything in that case then. I held myself back for a long time, but eventually ended up having an argument with the cousin over her discriminatory attitude.”

Mariyam - I believe you’ve said this at a very right time, especially when Muslims in India are being targeted repeatedly. And these are happening at a level where we can clearly see that a campaign is being run to create resentment against Muslims among the Hindus. How do you try to clear such resentments in the larger community? 

Nazni Rizvi - “We try to convince people that we are all living in the same country and are Indians before being Muslims. We have a very old slogan saying Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christian, we are all brothers. So if we are all really brothers, all this bigotry is not right. Even Hindus don’t eat from Muslim-owned eateries here. If we’re going to bring religion into everything, who packed what food, whether Hindu or Muslim, it is going to be very difficult to bring about change anytime soon.” 

Mariyam - But change can happen?

Nazni Rizvi - “Yes, it can. If every family gets one fighter like you and I, we can together bring about change.”

Mariyam - Absolutely, if there’s a Nazni Rizvi in every family, we can definitely change things. My second last question to you would be, how do you deal with the identity confusion where whilst you live within the Muslim community, they don’t identify with you, and while you work outside this community they’re still not able to understand and resonate with you. How do you feel about this? Sometimes I also face this confusion and it is part of the reason as to why I started Main Bhi Muslim, because alongside being women, Muslimness is part of our identity too, irrespective of our lifestyle. So, how do you deal with this confusion among people?

Nazni Rizvi - “I want to add something to this. My identity has more layers to it. Even within Muslims, there are two communities. I am a Shia Muslim. I was married into a Sunni family. When I’m sitting among Sunnis, they think I’m a Shia and they make nasty comments about Shias. But when I’m sitting among Shias, they think I’m a Sunni and they pass comments on Sunnis. They slander Sunnis and tell my children that they do not belong to the Syyed family. This is also a kind of violence that I am fighting where I’ve been divided into 3 different communities. Because I come from a Shia family, I don’t like those things where there is flagellation (during Muharram processions) and unnecessary bleeding.

And when I call out such things, I’m considered an atheist among my family, I’m a bad woman. Saying so about Maula makes them think of me as deserving hell. The Sunnis ask if I offer Namaaz as many times as Shias do and vice-versa, whereas for me, I do not offer Namaaz (smiles). Neither the Shias kind nor the Sunnis kind. 

When I’m among Muslims, my ‘bindi’ and ‘bichiyas’ don’t make me a Muslim and if I’m among Hindus, my name makes me Muslim. I’m not doing anything Muslim enough to be a Muslim, but that’s what I am. I’m dealing with all these things. A lot of Muslim girls these days have started wearing a ‘bindi’ for they do not think doing so is wrong.”

Mariyam - We are learning from you. I think it's very important for us to have many examples like you within our community so that more girls, who want to pursue journalism, who want to make their own life decisions, have such inspiring figures that give them courage. It is essential they understand that they are not alone. 

So, what changes are required in the Muslim community which are necessary to bring about independence and maintain individuality in the identity of women, especially in rural areas where changing mindset is most difficult and time taking?

Nazni Rizvi - “Within Muslims, the Purdah system and dressing restrictions need to first change, which are more common in rural areas. They have reduced in urban areas, but even today, Muslim women in Mumbai do not move out without a veil, irrespective of what they’re wearing inside. For example, I allow my girls to wear all that they like. They wear shorts, skirts, jeans, and everything they like. They do not like wearing suits, but considering our society, I ask them to wear one sometimes so that they are habitual to it, that too because of what people in the community will say. But I never stop them from wearing what they like. We have a lot of dressing constraints, we are always asked to wear dupattas, even at home, even with our family. 

These things, the purdah system needs to change. It’s not fair that if we are not under a veil, we are looked upon wrongly. In rural regions, even during big family functions, meals are also served in different places for both the genders, unlike in urban areas where everyone is just enjoying themselves together. During the ‘bidaai’ of my cousin, not a single man or boy could come to meet her at the end, to bid her goodbye, not even her father, because the purdah system is so prevalent. It's very important for people to change their regressive attitudes towards others’ religions. You’re drinking black tea with lemon because the milk available is from a Hindu-owned dairy only. What if the lemon also comes from a tree owned by a Hindu?

Mariyam - You are absolutely right, it's very important. And I see these things in your way of reporting too where you’re able to talk to anyone because you ask the same questions to everyone. When you’re making your videos, you ask everyone the questions pertaining to feminism, misogyny, biases within communities against others, and untouchability, irrespective of gender, and it is very important we all ask these right questions to ourselves and to everyone around us in order to arrive at the right answers. We cannot expect to change mindsets towards creating oneness and unity among all, unless we are asking the right questions.

I ask all my guests: ‘Main bhi Muslim’, what value do these 3 words hold for you? 

Nazni Rizvi - “It doesn’t occur to me that I am a Muslim. What matters most to me is that I am a woman, an Indian. Whenever there’s a match or a competition, it doesn’t bother people much which country is on the opponent team. But if it is an India vs Pakistan match, Indian Hindus and Muslims have the same enthusiasm to support our country. Pakistan was indeed a piece of our once India, but India is where we are now, India feeds us, India is my nation. As Muslims residing in India, India should matter most to us. Yes, we could all have favorite players from any team around the world, but I don't feel any extra excitement each time that there’s an India-Pakistan match, unlike most people. Hindus have this thing where they do not care about other matches or countries, all they want is that Pakistan shouldn’t win. Neither Muslims, nor Hindus should think and act that way.”

Mariyam -  I think, as a woman myself, this entire episode has helped me understand what topics need to be really talked about and must be resolved first, in order to bring about a change in the bigger picture, to change other things that are often talked about. We must get to the roots of all the issues that exist in our society, and here, the root is patriarchy. All issues must be talked about with a feministic perspective. Thank you, Nazni Ji. I’m really excited to release this episode. I’m really thankful to you from the bottom of my heart. 

Nazni Rizvi - “Sometimes, people do feel these things (patriarchy) but aren’t able to say it out loud. When we ask people these questions, it forces them to think about it, and that could maybe trigger change. Deep down, they do understand that what they’re doing is wrong and unfair, but aren’t able to act on it. Therefore, it's very important to ask the right questions.”

Mariyam - Thank you Nazni, for your questions, and I hope you’ll continue raising the same issues and asking the right questions. I am confident that very soon, we’ll have a Nazni Rizvi in every family in our society. With that hope and confidence we keep moving forward. Looking forward to seeing you sometime, somewhere. 

Nazni Rizvi - Thank you. :)

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